Qiological podcast with Michael Max

Interview with Heiner Fruehauf
National University of Natural Medicine,
College of Classical Chinese Medicine

This conversation between seasoned Chinese medicine practitioners Michael Max and Heiner Fruehauf includes news from the front line of Chinese medicine treatments in hospitals in Wuhan and elsewhere, and discusses both the common nature of the current epidemic pathogen as well as the importance of applying differential diagnosis (bianzheng lunzhi) in approaching it with the modalities of Chinese medicine.


For those of us in North America the world changed about three weeks ago as the Covid-19 began to make itself known. And as Chinese medicine practitioners begin to close their in-person practice and open up video visits with patients for herbal consultations there is an increasing interest in how we in the modern world, facing this particular pandemic, can use our medicine to help.

Heiner Fruehauf has been translating some of the writing and communications of his friend and colleague Dr Liu Li Hong who has been in Wu Han treating patients for a couple months now.

In this conversation we touch both on the one size fits all formulas that have shown effect in protecting staff from infection, and the importance of applying our Chinese medicine 辨證理論 bian zheng li lun, principles of differential diagnosis.

Listen into this report from the front lines of China, and how we can help our patients and each other as it is now our turn to confront this epidemic.

In This Conversation We Discuss:

  • Background on the report from china
  • 合病 He Bing, 並病 Bing Bing, 兩感Liang Gan
  • In the preface of the Shang Han Lun we find that disease will not always follow a neat progression, and is descriptive of what is being seen with Covid-19 patients
  • Ma Xing Shi Tang can be considered for a Tai Yang/Yang Ming complexity syndrome, where there is cold on the outside and heat on the inside
  • Overlaps been Shang Han and Wen Bing perspectives
  • Do you really trust the medicine?
  • Using the prescriptions as a kind of reference tool for your own clinical reasoning
  • Attending to the syndromes that arise as a response of the body in relation to internal or external influences
  • The contradiction between a standardized formula being very effective in protecting doctors in a hospital and the perspective that differential diagnosis is essential for effective treatment
  • The critical distinction between 法fa, method and 方,fang prescription
  • The 五運六氣 wu yun liu qi perspective on why the “regular” flu was also severe this year
  • Being infected on the psycho-social-emotive level
  • Qing Fei Pai Du Tang
  • Some precautions practitioners can take for themselves